Lv60 {Mithra} {thief} needs help

[dot_rain]

A Hume thf friend of mine said he always did about 1k dmg on bird in {Valley of Sorrow} with Dancing Edge while I only did about 600 (barely 700+) .

A heard bcus Mithra is lack of STR , so I replaced 2 +3Dex rings by 2 +3STR rings (Sun Ring) . I tested this morning in Valley of Sorrow on same bird , but the dmg from Dancing Edge was the same (500-600) , and it seemed it was the same dmg nomatter I used +3Dex or +3STR

Different equipments :

I use Darksteel Kukri +1 , He uses Cosair Knife

I use AF head and Boot , He uses Emp Hairpin + Leaping Boot


My friends said it's bcus he got Emp hairpin + LB while I don't have . But I'm a Mithra .

Please Help .

[Darkedge]

I don't know how much this will help but their's speculation Weapon Skills such as Dancing Edge are affected by CHR.

[Roldarin]

The +10 ATK from the corsair's knife I imagine makes a big difference. Are either of you THF/NIN? What do you wield in your offhand?

You should compare your raw DEX, AGI, STR to your friends, rather than worry what equipment you have, since you are different races. I imagine when you add it all up he has more of all 3 of these stats.

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by Darkedge
I don't know how much this will help but their's speculation Weapon Skills such as Dancing Edge are affected by CHR.

I dont notice too big of a difference when I dont use VE and LL, but they still should add a little damage.

And there is always speculation that more TP for DE = More damage. As said by other thieves ..or just Calin..>.>. (To the quote above)

+10 Atk increases your regular attack...not DE, Sneak, or Trick... =P. Nobody has said anything about STR though or even has tested. Be nice to see a 75thief/dark compare with 75thief/ninja and maybe /warrior.

[LockeCole]

Re: Lv60 {Mithra} {thief} needs help

Originally posted by dot_rain
A Hume thf friend of mine said he always did about 1k dmg on bird in {Valley of Sorrow} with Dancing Edge while I only did about 600 (barely 700+) .

Always did 1k damage !? Does that include renkei damage ? Having extra dex and agi doesn't increase your average damage that high at all, unless you manage to score a triple/double attack each time.

[Ungerpurr]

+10 atk doesn't increase your damage at all? EH?

Without sneak, or trick, or food, use viper bite on a level 1 mob, will probably hit for around 100 or depending on your level. Now, find an easy prey, and use viper bite without sneak or trick. It'll probably be more like 60. Use it on an IT and it'll be like...20. Why is this?

Because your attack in relation to the monster's defense determines your damage. The primary reason SAnTA are so good is because of sneak attack. This is because it forces a critical, which ups your "rate" by 1 point (on a scale of 0.0 to 2.0, 0.0 being a very bad roll against a high defense monster, 2.0 being a good roll on a low defense monster). Your rate is the primary determinant of what you do...and it's what randomizes your damage. It's the multiplier on the (dex + agi + weapon damage) part of the SAnTA formula.

If a monster is high defense, your rate is between 0.0 and 0.5. If it is "even" defense, your rate is between 0.5 and 1.5. If it is low defense, your rate is between 1.5 and 2.0. This is why, even against a high defense monster, SAnTA does good damage, because it bumps the multiplier up.

Now, having higher attack means your natural rate is higher. Because it stacks with SAnTA, Dancing Edge is a physical damage weaponskill, thus, having higher attack means it'll do more damage. Once your rate caps out (can't be higher than 2.0), your damage can't get any higher. This is why you hit low level mobs for the same damage every time, your damage is capped. If you can cap your rate vs. xp monsters (IT), which isn't impossible by any means with SAnTA (remember that all critical hits add 1.0 to whatever rate is rolled for that attack), then you should see very very consistent damage every fight.

I know you've been around a long time, John Doe, but saying ATK doesn't affect your SAnTA damage...that's like telling thieves they shouldn't bother using kabobs. Or telling me that berserk doesn't increase my SAnTA damage (of course it does). Or, telling me that boosting (sometimes up to 7-9 times) while pulling with thf/mnk in yuhtunga didn't increase my SA damage from ~110 to ~200. Must've been a mirage. Maybe I was drunk.

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by Ungerpurr
I know you've been around a long time, John Doe, but saying ATK doesn't affect your SAnTA damage...that's like telling thieves they shouldn't bother using kabobs. Or telling me that berserk doesn't increase my SAnTA damage (of course it does). Or, telling me that boosting (sometimes up to 7-9 times) while pulling with thf/mnk in yuhtunga didn't increase my SA damage from ~110 to ~200. Must've been a mirage. Maybe I was drunk.

I really dont want to make this into another flame thread, like every other one here. I was just saying Unger :sweat: :sweat: I heard it anyways. Not that i've tested but I just think +20 more regular attack wouldn't make too big of a jump in your DE. She's level 60 so no need to do Viper. She didn't even have VE and LL equiped, +6 more AGI and DEX probably would have helpfull more than the two daggers. Just like getting +36 DEX would help even more. Inless you can't afford it ^_~. Anyways...yeah...sorry if any mispell..just woke up.

Plus:

Nobody has said anything about STR though or even has tested. Be nice to see a 75thief/dark compare with 75thief/ninja and maybe /warrior.

[Ungerpurr]

Sorry John Doe, it was late, I was perhaps just a wee bit more confrontational than necessary. I'm not sure how much a small amount of +ATK would change things, but it has been my experience that a significant amount of +ATK makes an equally significant difference in my SA/TA damage.

Personally, I think a thf/war would have a higher damage SA/TA than a thf/nin (when berserk is up)....but possibly not be able to do it as often. With dual wield 2 at level 50+, a thf/nin using the same daggers in main / offhand should be gaining TP 15% faster, assuming dual wield doesn't lower the TP gain (just for argument's sake, the martial arts job trait for HTH DOES lower TP gain per hit as a side effect of lowering your delay). Of course, this doesn't touch on the ability of thf/nin to equip an additional +dex / +agi weapon in comparison to a thf/war.

Thf/drk...meh, has +10 more base attack (compared to /war), and last resort is only +15% ATK 10% of the time (30 second duration, 5 minute reuse) compared to berserk's +25% ATK 60% of the time (3 minute duration, 5 minute reuse), not to mention warcry at level 70, which is (as I recall) +25 ATK for 30 seconds, every five minutes. The benefits of subbing nin are the (I presume) faster TP gain, ability to equip an offhand +dex/+agi weapon, the "Stealth" job trait, and the usefulness of utsusemi ninjutsu.

I personally think both thf/war and thf/nin are valid job combos, and very close to each other overall. I'm sure 2.0 would disagree, however.

Anyway...on the topic, there's no way a hume thf is doing more damage than a mithra thf unless the mithra thf is vastly underequipped by comparison. A mithra has 11 more dex and 7 more agi than a hume by level 59 (not how much this changes at higher levels, but I don't believe stats change much post-60). Not to stir the pot again...but were you both using the same food?

[Kastel]

that is odd. you honestly should be tearing into Peryton more. They are weak to piercing and i remember doing tons of damage on them always like 800-1000. You may try accuracy gear, are you coming out of dancing with full hit 14% TP ?

i was thf/nin at this time doing SC with RNG. always her Sidewinder 800+ and my Dancing 800+

[John Doe III]

Thanks Unger

Anyways, I was just saying. I may get DRK, WAR, and SAM up to 30 and buy best equip that would suit each job and try them with each one and test it out. Testing = DE damage. Just for ...my purpose lol...always been wondering what would be more fun to use during farming, skill up, or maybe PT's.

Onto the main topic. I've been very close to being out beat by Viper Bite when I was 60 and someone else was 59. She and I were both mithras. We both basically had the same equip as well. Allllll in the past I guess.

[Balodoth]

facts

There are two parts to the damage equation, well, three really, but just follow me on this.

First is your STR versus the enemy's VIT. Having more STR increases your damage, but not by much. It's good for THF to have +STR for damage over the course of time. When it comes to SATA, though, it's a one hit thing and benefits more from the second part of the equation.

The next part has to do with your weapon's damage rating in conjunction with your ATK versus the enemy's DEF. The damage rating has the DEX added for SA and AGI added for TA. It is then multiplied by the result from the part of the equation comparing your ATK to the enemy's DEF. The closer your ATK is to the enemy's DEF (or higher than is even better) the larger the multiplier. The more the DEX & AGI, the more to be multiplied.

Basically, STR helps a THF in between SATA's, but pumping your ATK, DEX, & AGI has much larger returns for SATA. So, yes, his equipment may give him that edge. I don't know if you ever tried it, but if you sub MNK and do a whole bunch of Boosts, you can get excellent SATA's. At level 20 I was getting anywhere from 15% to 100% more damage than usual (mostly depended on how many boosts I had before the puller got back). It's also easier to see the difference of DEX if you experiment with and without Balance rings at level 15 when you first get SA.

[peet]

Originally posted by Kastel
that is odd. you honestly should be tearing into Peryton more. They are weak to piercing and i remember doing tons of damage on them always like 800-1000. You may try accuracy gear, are you coming out of dancing with full hit 14% TP ?

i was thf/nin at this time doing SC with RNG. always her Sidewinder 800+ and my Dancing 800+

Yeah with multi-hit ws like dancing your best bet in doing better damage is getting +accuracy gear.

[meboz]

next question is...
was he PT with a BRD... madrigal and minuet have dramatic effects on dmg output and accuracy.